Legends of the Phoenix > Raid Council > Flame on << Prev Topic | Next Topic >> Author Comment BictorBard Registered User Posts: 8 (5/12/04 8:08 pm) Reply Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am very angry, as of 7:00pm PST on may 12th 2004. The reasons, well simply put there are too many to name. First off, I just want to say I hate this guild so much. Seriously, I have been in this guild for two years, not straight but was only a 6month period in-between. The guild sucks, worse than it ever has. Personally it was the best, from my time in LoP when Salvestrom was running the raids and events. It was great; people were getting loot and exp and spending good quality time together. Now it just sucks, no one wants to help anyone, and we never do anything. Granted I have not helped in this area, but it is kind of hard when a member of the raid council is an @#%$. (will get to that later). I also have college and my best friend is getting married and just bought his new house, so I have been fixing his house and getting him ready for his wedding, lol. Beside that, summer is coming and I will have 24hours to help out, and I was planning to help out a bunch more. I had thought about doing some LoY raids but figure why bother, no one wants to go, people only want PoP flags and PoP loot. Rahz a raid leader for Strom channel is very cut and dry, which is good and sometimes not. He leads a raid; all loot is destroyed end of discussion. Why is that good? Because it gets things done. Personally LoP gets crap done and I am tried of it. There are so many people that don't do crap for LoP and are just dead weights. That’s one of my biggest problems with this guild. Sure, we want to be a family guild and not have raiding be what we are about. Personally, that’s crap. No one is playing this game to chat. They want to see new zones, beat big bosses and get good loot, all the while having good conversation. There are countless people in LoP that I swear I haven't see go on a raid once. Not once, what the crap are they in LoP for? You want to exp, fine, go somewhere else, but don't wear the Tag if you just going to ignore LoP. I don't know how many times I have asked people to help, and its not like we raid 24/7 and they say no, I am busy. That is crap, unless you taking time out to help someone else, or getting PoP flags, drop what your doing and help. OK moving on, another thing, I think Hellmaster needs to quit drinking and playing the game or stop playing altogether. Yes, you’re the @#%$ Hell. First, you made Neodoc feel bad about Chardok, which was just pure rude. Than you turn on me and say it was my fault. Point, shut your damn mouth and forget whose fault it may have been. People make mistakes. I am not the only one that feels you’re an ass hell, keep that in mind. You constantly degrade me on raids, saying not to Charm the mobs. I did that once in an Ldon, at lv 53 or something. Some bards, charm to help with CC, a minute charm when trying to mezz 4 mobs helps a lot. And besides we didn’t die and we won the Ldon., so stop making me look like an idiot in raid say and guild chat. I am not the one who had a hissy fit and left a group of people in an Ldon just because he were made the Leno was getting agro. You are retarded, you don’t leave 4 other people in an Ldon and go cry about it and than turn around on more than one occasion when raiding and start pointing figured on something that went wrong. You’re a hypocrite and should be banned from raiding till you get your act straight. Btw I argue you because it just shows me I am right, that you are an ass. Granted you do help, which is a plus and step above the rest of the dead weight in LoP. I personally think you get assholish when you drink. And remember I am not the only one that thinks this; their names will be left out. And on a side note, sure I am not the greatest raid leader, but heck I am trying. I never give anyone slack about leading a failed raid, and I never say people suck. You know why? It is a game and people can get better but some don't play 24/7. I have grouped with so many people that put others down it is sad. It is uncalled for and just shows everyone else you are an ass and a loser. (Not talking about you anymore hell fyi) Example, today I was swarming in pov, a golem or two... or 25 golems, but there was no one in the EW or WW area, and I was doing great till a necro started snaring all my mobs, I said stop. That’s all. He goes into a big thing about how I am in his spot training him. It takes a few minutes to type back so he kept on doing it. I said I didn't see him, which was the truth, 3rd person zoomed out and he was in skelly form. Now how and I suppose to see that against a grey background? Anyways I said he could have just asked for me to move. So he basically gets aggro from 25 golems and 4 spiders and trains the gy. People die and he comes back. Does it all over again. this time people at EW are forming and die again, they send me a tell. I explain a necro is snaring my mobs and getting aggro himself. He goes in ooc and basically says I am training people for fun and that I am an @#%$. I might have been an @#%$ to him after he snared half my swarm, but I would never be an ass for fun and never train people. Basically I end up dieing cause it is hard as heck to type and swarm at the same time, got stuck on a rock, in duck mod.. splat! Really annoyed me. Cause it makes it seem he won and that all he has to do is just that and he wins. I wanted to train him intentionally but didn't. I don't care if fd works, 25 golems and your dead. That was what set me off today, because he reminded me of another I faced in ME. Was a wizard, we had a little disagreement, about what group was camping what. Anyways he gets mad and flames on 20 different guild boards saying I was KS him and everything. I about fell of my chair, first I wasn’t the only one there, there was 5 other people in the group. I think he flamed on me cause I told him to quick being an ass and just share the mobs. But he had to takes it up a noch and tell everyone in everquest what a horrible person I was. The necro reminded me of him. Moving on, LoP sucks and I am not the first to figure this out. Why did Asuah leave? Why did Salvestrom leave? Why did everyone else leave, because it sucks and there is too much internal conflict. Sure Adiyra is gone, for now, but it is the same crap. Personally Shakes, you need to grab the Leadership role by the horns and let it rip. Half the officers do crap, and the raid council is a joke. Officers should have responsibility not just a specific class and lv. Who cares about class officers, what do they do anyways? nothing. I don't care if I am an officer or not, but the others suck at it. I am basically saying, get rid of the fat and find people who will actually try and help. Help with the website, the raiding, the loot rules, and invites/apps. We don't need a million officers or each class or for all the classes period. Find someone who will lead raids, find someone who will deal with website, find someone who will be internal affairs and find someone for inter guild relations. If that’s not what LoP is about, not raiding or being like the other guilds than your kidding yourself. LoP sucks, why because we can't have our cake and eat it too. If you don't know what I mean than your dumb. I have been with LoP a long time, and am fed up with the crap, but my problem is I don't want to join some better guild and see how much better than LoP they are, because that means I gave up. I have always been like this, and always get stuck in the same damn spot, no where. People want change, ok I try to give it to em, but then they turn around and complain and say it won't work, because things don't work right away. We are not DH, yet people want loot and power just like them. Well we have to try and work on it, and I am sure we going to mess up along the way. But I am sick of the crap and am getting burned out. I told you shakes you were going to need help with website and everything. I told you raiding was going to be a problem, blah blah blah. No one listens. Want a good guild, than do what DH does. And I don't mean play 24/7. It is as easy as that. Why try and figure out how to do it right, when many guilds already do it. Why I don’t just leave LoP, many reason. One I like helping people, quests, raid, loot, it is fun for me. Helping in LoP is what I do and if I went to IL or something. I doubt I could help them much hehe. Would be the other way around. I could start my own guild, but I don't have the time to be leader. You don't have time either shakes? Than give up leader position! Being a good guild leader is time consuming, so don't try and make it something else. Overall, I am just sick of the people in the game. They act like 5 year old kids fighting over a blanket. I am not sure what I am going to do, but I know I am not going to be in the raid council anymore. Please post whatever you want I would love to debate it. shabrinigdo Registered User Posts: 30 (5/12/04 11:05 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ............................................ --Hell 65 Feral Lord of LoP Neomd31 Registered User Posts: 80 (5/13/04 12:28 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alright, where to start...where to start... Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am very angry, as of 7:00pm PST on may 12th 2004. The reasons, well simply put there are too many to name. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If your gonna flame/rant and this is "the straw that broke the camel's back" then wouldn't it be a good idea at least give a reason or two? Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had thought about doing some LoY raids but figure why bother, no one wants to go, people only want PoP flags and PoP loot. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you ask people? I personaly really enjoy LoY and think it would be very interesting to go there. Althoguh, I do agree that PoP is what alot of people want. Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- here are countless people in LoP that I swear I haven't see go on a raid once. Not once, what the crap are they in LoP for? You want to exp, fine, go somewhere else, but don't wear the Tag if you just going to ignore LoP. I don't know how many times I have asked people to help, and its not like we raid 24/7 and they say no, I am busy. That is crap, unless you taking time out to help someone else, or getting PoP flags, drop what your doing and help. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So much anger. /sighs Just because someone isn't raiding doesn't mean they cannot be busy. If I'm in a LDoN or cannot find a replacement, would you leave a group hanging? Also this last time I checked... was a family guild... not a full time raiding guild nor was you required to raid with the guild. Some people just can't make it to the raids but still want a family so to speak on eq. Are you going to take a poolsweep to the guild and throw out everyone that cannot make every single raid or that is EVER busy when something that wasn't planned before. Now if it was a planned event that was announced a week before, had been on the MOTD for a few days then you have room to say something... But I digress... moving on! Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK moving on, another thing, I think Hellmaster needs to quit drinking and playing the game or stop playing altogether. Yes, you’re the @#%$ Hell. First, you made Neodoc feel bad about Chardok --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So much on that one! I felt bad about it all on my lonesome before that. Hell on the contray was tring to make me stop beating myself up over it so you have things bassackwords on that one. I'm not gonna touch on the LDoN or kiting because I wasn't there and is kinda getting off track from the rest of your post so let's skip ahead... Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moving on, LoP sucks and I am not the first to figure this out. Why did Asuah leave? Why did Salvestrom leave? Why did everyone else leave, because it sucks and there is too much internal conflict. Sure Adiyra is gone, for now, but it is the same crap. Personally Shakes, you need to grab the Leadership role by the horns and let it rip. Half the officers do crap, and the raid council is a joke. Officers should have responsibility not just a specific class and lv. Who cares about class officers, what do they do anyways? nothing. I don't care if I am an officer or not, but the others suck at it. I am basically saying, get rid of the fat and find people who will actually try and help. Help with the website, the raiding, the loot rules, and invites/apps. We don't need a million officers or each class or for all the classes period. Find someone who will lead raids, find someone who will deal with website, find someone who will be internal affairs and find someone for inter guild relations. If that’s not what LoP is about, not raiding or being like the other guilds than your kidding yourself. LoP sucks, why because we can't have our cake and eat it too. If you don't know what I mean than your dumb. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do agree that the class officers hasn't been around much, and maybe we should be looking at a rebuilting of the inner workerings. Calling anyone that doesn't see it your way is dumb? IMHO that is a pretty dumb statement. If the RC is such a joke then why are you a part of it? Are you suggesting you should be an officer that is only incharge of raiding instead of having a Council? The inner workings could be looked at yes, but until adi comes back and can help with it (it IS her guild afterall) should it happen? most likely not. Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are not DH, yet people want loot and power just like them. Well we have to try and work on it, and I am sure we going to mess up along the way. But I am sick of the crap and am getting burned out. I told you shakes you were going to need help with website and everything. I told you raiding was going to be a problem, blah blah blah. No one listens. Want a good guild, than do what DH does. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You said we are not DH and then do what DH does? MAKE UP YOUR MIND BEFORE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!! Alright Mr. Karry, What does DH do that we should be doing? Sounds like your playing armchair quarterback. Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if I went to IL or something. I doubt I could help them much hehe --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posting something like this? I doubt you would get in. Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You don't have time either shakes? Than give up leader position! Being a good guild leader is time consuming, so don't try and make it something else. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shakes is busy in RL, are you really suggesting he should pass on leadership to someone else when he made this councial to help when he left. Who is your suggestion to lead? You? I would leave on that accord after reading this. I have seen people put thier foot in thier mouth, but never before have I seen someone put an entire shoe store in thier mouth!!! Edit: As an added note, I do not see how nor a reason to work with Bictor anymore after this post. Maybe I should consider leaving the RC since it is nothing "but a joke"... Edited by: Neomd31 at: 5/13/04 12:54 am Corwyn lop George of the Jungle Posts: 47 (5/13/04 1:01 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok first off, Im not sure what part of the charter was written in such an arcane manner that its not pretty understandable. We are a family guild. We are not about raiding. Do we raid? Sure, but its not the focus of this guild. Maybe thats crap to you, but if so, thats your problem. You knew what the guild was about before you signed up...the second time at least. As for the Raid Council being a joke...Ive been on a number of raids in the past month, a number of events...all of which were about...hmmm helping people. Not a one was about PoP flags or planar loot...Stumpie, tho recently on leave of absence, has been instrumental in getting PoP flags for members of LoP...I would hardly call that a joke. Neodoc has started mini events to give the guild the opportunity to do things together, get xps, and get some loot...doesnt seem like a joke to me there either. Hell has been instrumental in getting at least 4 epics into the guild and has on a number of occasions led or helped in attempts to get other epic items or simply provided xp sessions for the guild. You have....well you posted that the raid council is a joke...certainly a contribution to be proud of. Personal attacks on Hellmaster really dont belong on this board, if you have a problem with a fellow guildmember you should work it, or get an officer to mediate if you cant work it out yourself. I will say this though...the couple days Hell's computer was down was pretty much the longest period of time thats gone by Ive seen that he did not help out someone in the guild. Maybe he has wronged you...He can certainly be abrasive and rub people the wrong way but the fact is Im proud to call him a guildmate. None of us is perfect, but Hellmaster tries as hard as anyone in this guild to help out and to improve the guild. I wont contest that some folks have left the guild in order to "be uber" to be able to see new places and do new things...thats fine, more power to them...just because a guild isnt their cup of tea does not mean it sucks...I know its an adult concept but this is the raid council so mature discussion should be possible. While I will not name names, I will say that at least one person who you claim left LoP "because it sucks" was TOLD by the officers to either leave or be removed...they were not simply kicked out because of past contributions. I hate to inject a bit of fact into these claims but there is no way Im going to let someone kicked out of the guild (for all practical purposes) be used as an example of someone who left LoP "because it sucks". Please get your facts straight before posting them. To sum up. LoP is a family guild. LoP is not about raiding. If those things change, it will be because that is the way the guild evolves. It will not be because you think it sucks. You are someone I count as a friend Bictor, If Im being harsh its because Im just as angry as you were when you posted. That said, Id rather you sent me or someone a tell when there is a problem so that something can be done instead of letting things build up as they obviously have. The raid council is in a unique position to direct the course of this guild, you are part of it...I am sure you can come up with a better way to contribute than this. Corwyn


I took the What Mythological Creature Are you? test by !

Comtl Posts: 9 (5/13/04 3:43 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think Hell sumed it up the best. ..................................... So if the guild sucks so much as you say, i take it you'll be able to find that guild remove key on your screen. BictorBard Registered User Posts: 9 (5/13/04 10:33 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First off, only the raid council is suppose to read any of this, that’s why I put it here. 46 views tell me otherwise. Unless neodoc and corwyn hit the back button a lot. First off, your post Neodoc was more emotion than informative. A lot of the points you made were good but they got you nowhere. Answering a question with a question. I am angry with people in LoP that never help on raids. I don’t want to say names but there are those. I do understand people are busy and being informed ahead of time is key, but a day or two ahead is good time and the people I speak of, on busy times, not 3am but when everyone is on don’t bother helping. I also didn’t post the reasons for this being the last straw, because it is more pointless than me ranting about ME and the wizard was not the point. But I can tell you if you so really want to hear them. I mention IL because they are well known, I wasn’t being literal, that is why I said or something, and saying I wouldn’t get in, on your part, tells me you don’t understand eq all that well, and is just plain snobbish, I can’t think of a better word, but basically makes you sound like you are better or I wouldn’t be good enough. There is no need, that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. Also about me being leader, if you didn’t read I said I don’t have time but you asked the question, or meant it as an insult. Reread your post and tell me otherwise. I am not picking on you just defending myself, I have no beef with you or anyone in the raid council, except Hell. To clear some things. I never said Hell doesn't help; I thought I clearly said he did the opposite; he just has a problem making people feel bad and gets worked up. It is annoying, but I really think it only happens when he drinks. As mentioned he was in the Navy, and from personal experience, it is a big babysitter for some people. Not putting down the Force, but for some people it does little for personal growth and can be a lot like going to college, without the studying part. My personal attacks on Hell are on this board because that is where they belong, Numerous times, as I had mentioned, Hell degrades me in guild chat or Rsay making me sound like I am incompetent. I posted here, because only a hand full of people are suppose to see it, where as when a problem arises in game, many people are watching or we are raiding. Shakes knows there is a problem, and any other officer getting involved is not required, because they don’t know what is going on anyways. There are some things that many don't understand about LoP. I have seen it go up and down, up and down. I am 100percent sure it will come back around, but the thing that is most bothersome, are the people that don't realize that and contradict themselves. When I said we are not DH I meant it. We will never be exactly like DH. People don't play that much and don't want to conform like them, but they want the same results. When I said, follow their example, I meant in the way they manage guild tasks. The problem that LoP has always had is structure. No one knows their place and what we want. It has gotten better with Shakes leading, but I for one can tell he is getting tired/ worn out. Same with how corwyn acts. It is no joke the demands of being a leader, and that’s why I posted way before I was in the raid council, about delegating tasks. The raid council thus far is doing ok, but it is only a hand full of people, and I am sure we have our doubts. My words were not as harsh as I would have liked, but harsh words make people more emotional, and that tends to be more truthful than not. There are two ideals of what LoP should be, and this dates back before even I was in LoP. It is divided between a family guild and a raiding guild. The problem is not that we can't be one but we anr caught in the middle. Example, people leave LoP, no names, just people leave because they want to raid and see the rest of the game. Other’s just wanted to stick with the same group of people and get some exp a few hours everyday. That variation in people causes tension and problems. One group wants helps, like on epic raids, the other doesn't want anyone to talk to them and just mine their own business. Bare bones, that is the problem. With regards to my raiding, I don't really want to because people don't want to help and most, not all, only want PoP or better loot. Shakes has posted some good quest that the guild could do, with good rewards, but is it enough? Probably not, because no one wants to give up the exp grind or their pop flag to help. I will explain. Trak raid while Shakes was gone. We had 5 clerics on the raid, we knew of at least 2 before the raid was starting, the problem? No tank. Hell was the first pick but was having problems LD etc. So I was trying to find someone to come, just in case. 2 hours later, not one tank, not one wanted to help. Why, because the drops sucked. I about crapped my pants. I told a 61 pal, not 65 and not in DH or Frog Romper, the loot was random and he would have a chance at the Pal bp. He turned me down cause he said it was worthless and not worth his time. Granted he may have been a loser or whatever, but his attitude was what I get from a lot of people in EQ. The people already on the raid, in Seb. didn’t know I was looking for a tank for 2hours, any tank that was on the Zeb. Server. Finally hell did come back and we made it to Trak but with no avail. With regards to my help, I always, always try to make time to help. Just because I can’t tank does mean I don’t help; now I really hope you mean what you said about my contribution Corwyn. When there is something going on, I am there, almost always and so is Hell, I just don’t tank mobs, not what my class does, except for 600aa shakes. Sure I don’t set thing up a lot, but it is real discouraging when you try and get one tank for a trak raid or you wipe on a Chardok raid, and than get a raid council member start yelling down your neck as the other thinks it is all his fault. I told Fyre along time ago I don't give a damn about loot, sure I like to be able to perform as a good character but I could careless about having a 100/10 delay weapon. I didn't drop out of a Strom Torment raid for Shakes cause I wanted to be an @#%$. I dropped out because he needed the flag ten times more than I did and he got some great bard only weapons. Why do I mention that, because maybe some of you have a notion I want to be uber like Pullaton. I really don't care. That’s why one reason I think that necro in PoV was mad, because I can get 1yellow of exp at 63 in 20mins of soloing golems and it takes him a day. Anyway. I feel LoP has got to pick one or the other paths and stick to it. When people join, make sure they know, we don't raid. Sure we raid, but basically tell them we don't, because it is more honest than saying we do. PoP flags, they are not going happen, there is no one to lead them and not enough people to even do them. Sure we could do the hedge maze or little pop flags, but than what? People will want to finish them and we don't have the capability. I am not being an ass, just a realist. I don't like to kid myself, but LoP is not able to do those things. The purpose of my post, basically what I do. I slap people in the face and said wtf are you doing. Corwyn you made no clear progress in debating, you get an F. You pointed out things that were untrue, or because of my wonderfully sucking writing, and got no where but left. Doesn’t make sense, not suppose to. With the exception of LoP getting better the past month which I said it was. Neodoc on the other hand, pointed out some things that we agreed on. What exactly? Read and figure it out. Comtl, your not suppose to see this section that is why I put it here, but your comment was most productive. Ok not really. Why do I bother posting, because someone has to try and make a difference. As in, try and make LoP better, not talking about raiding. I just hope this opens some eyes, maybe make some people say, “Hey maybe there is a problem and that suggestion might work, let’s try it.” Personally, that is way better than saying, hey this sucks I hate it, and do nothing. That’s why I said I hate this guild. Better than saying, I have a most grievous problem with the comportment, in which, this association is handled. shabrinigdo Registered User Posts: 31 (5/13/04 1:13 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bictor i do believe comtl and corwyn are officers and do have a right to see this section --Hell 65 Feral Lord of LoP Shakespeer Administrator Posts: 438 (5/13/04 2:35 pm) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've read all the posts in this thread pertaining to Bictor's post and I'm not upset at all. I'm disappointed, but not upset. Let me explain. I'm disappointed that the guild as a whole has not pulled together as well as I hoped. I'm disappointed that some of the very people who volunteered for the raid council have conflicts with each other and aren't looking past their personal grief with each other to work things out so we can press forward in the united cause that this council was created for. I was already aware of this issue when a few of you volunteered but I guess I place too much faith on people to resolve their own interpersonal crap with each other so they can work as a team. In other words, if I can't count on the members of the raid council to work cooperatively as a team, then someone needs to leave the council, especially if they can't maturely work their personal issues out. I'm also disappointed with your post Bictor because I expected better of you. If you're going to post reasons for what you're not satisfied with, then post solutions to what you personally will do to remedy those problems. Like I say, be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Am I tired? Yes. I'm tired of people who have all the answers and none of the solutions. For instance, if you say we never do anything, then why don't you make it one of your resolutions to lead a weekly raid or event one night a week? Even with your busy schedule you can probably manage something like that. If you say the raid council is a joke then do something about it. Otherwise, you're part of the joke. So here is your chance to make good on your name and reputation. Give me some specific and solid proposed solutions to the problems you see in LOP and actively do something to solve those problems besides just talking about them or adding to them. Enough said on this point. Now a word about the raid council and why officers can view this forum. I have posted the raid council GUIDELINES HERE. The raid council currently consists of Bictor, Hellmaster, Neodoc, Stumpie and Maggi(when she gets back). The officers are advisors to the raid council. This is why they have access to this board, so they can work with the members of the raid council to schedule events, give input, discuss any ideas and to make sure that none of their events overlap any scheduled plans of the RC. Officers also can lead raids if they choose and are part of the loot council (members of the raid council and officers objectively decide who gets loot on raids--see guidelines). If I have not made this clear then it is my fault. Now you know why they have access to this forum so let there be no more surprises on this matter. About raiding, new recruits and what LOP stands for. You mentioned that new invites should come in knowing that we are not a raiding guild and guess what? That is exactly what is happening. I tell every new invite what LOP is point blank and I don't sugarcoat it. I tell them we are not a hardcore 24/7 raiding guild nor do we kill mobs like PoP bosses because we simply don't have the forces to do so. I tell them we are a family guild that does our best to focus on grouping, quests, helping each other out, AND if we have the forces to raid, then we do that occassionally too. The charter that ALL applicants are required to read and agree to before a tag states the same thing in so many words. In fact, if we had a raid force the size of some of the high end guilds on this server, we'd be able to take on more targets and schedule raids more often. NTOV was the best example of what we were able to accomplish when we had the forces to do so. Each guild works with what they have. It only makes sense that we can only work with what we currently have and that is no different than any other guild. And FYI, NONE of the new invites I've spoken to in the last 3 months have left the guild because of this dry and straightforward communication. They come in knowing what to expect so they aren't disappointed with any smoke and mirrors. On a personal note about your swarming incident in POV and the resulting flame you got from that necro for it, I know you could have handled that better. It's in the past so nothing you can do about it now, but as a suggestion, I know it may seem difficult, but sometimes it's better to swallow pride and just remove yourself from any possible conflicts with another player who is being an idiot by just leaving the zone and saying sorry to the person. And on the topic of the wizard, first off, you called him an ass. C'mon Bictor, you're better than that. How is the problem going to be solved if you call him that? I'm not surprised he reacted the way he did. His measures were a bit extreme, but you could have quickly avoided that whole mess by doing a camp check first or leaving the area if he was already there or even claimed he was. There are other places to camp or level that you could have gone to for similar experience without the hassle of butting heads with a jerk like him. LOP does not "suck." As far as raid ability, in its current state, we can't even take on Vindi anymore, but I'm confident that over time, we can pull together and even take on NTOV again and even AOW. As to your position on the officers, I must say that we actually have gotten rid of a lot of the fat with the exodus of many of the former officers. There were some factions between the other officers that used to be in the guild and it was not harmonious. Now that they are gone, we are a more cohesive unit. I look up to them as friends and advisors. I agree that having a class specific officer really is not necessary, but that is what Adi wants and I'm just carrying on what she instituted. The officers do things for the guild in the background that you don't see. Some are leveling their characters to be more beneficial to the guild with classes we are short of. Others are highly skilled in tradeskills and help out the guild in the capacity that they can. The main role and responsibility of an officer of LOP is currently to handle any member disputes and make sure members adhere to the guild rules stated in the charter. They help with the website, the raiding, the loot rules, and the invites/apps. FYI, the website has been stagnant of updates because Trist left us abruptly and he was paying for the hosting service and was also the webmaster at the time. In fact the site is only still up because he is still paying for it and hence has control of the site. So now we have real financial matters involved for a game. I'm working with Lalanu and Layla to transfer hosts and also having someone appointed as our new webmaster but these things take time. If you or any other member would like to pay for the new hosting service for us so we can update the site more quickly, then show me the money. All officers attend guild functions when they can as far as I see too. As for the loot rules, this has already been stated clearly in the raid council guidelines which you should have read. I'm currently in charge of new invites/apps and officers, using thier own judgement, are also empowered to tag members if the member meets our requirements. These are things the officers are doing so that LOP does not suck. So what's the problem? What do you suggest they do differently? Now what I am doing about issues LOP is facing and what does it have to do with you? I've formed the raid council and expected you all to be self-governing and even stated so in the guidelines. As Corwyn said, you have the means to shape the direction of this guild. It is not meet that a person be commanded in all things. I let you know straight up that each of you were given the ability to schedule and lead raids, so if you're not happy that we don't schedule that many activities, the council as a whole is to blame, not me. If I have to tell you when to schedule a raid or what to schedule all the time, then you're just dead wood and you're no good to me because you're not helping me or the guild. If that sounds harsh, then it's because it's true. I've given up a lot of my free time in RL already to come up with ideas and implement changes. There is a real world out there that is more important than this game. I also announced very clearly in the dining room section I'd be busy for a bit to study so that should not come as a surprise if I'm playing less. However, in my spare time, I'm doing all I can to make positive changes to the guild. I've posted several suggestions already about how we can bring in more recruits. It is up to the the members to make good on these suggestions because I can not do it alone. I have already brought in one new member and am working on personally sponsoring more so you can be sure I practice what I preach. When Adiyra made me co-leader, it was to help manage the affairs of the guild and also to be able to tag any new officers if needed since she would not be online much. I told her I did not want to have the leader tag, but in the end only agreed because it was the only way to tag new officers since she was not going to be playing. I play this game because it is fun. I salute the members who are with us who add to that fun. I also respect the wishes of those who have left us to move on to other guilds and am sad that more of them did not stick around longer. It is a game after all. Just think. If we had 90pct member retention, we'd easily be the top largest guild on the server and there'd be no end to what we could accomplish. I've been in LOP for I think 3 years or 4 now and I've seen a lot of people come and go as well. In fact, I came in the guild when it was going through an even worse internal situation that caused member fallout than we are going through now. Metaphorically like the phoenix we rise up in greatness then fall to ashes only to rise up again to soar higher. Adi and the guild have been good to me so I want to make it the best that it can be while I carry the co-leader or officer tag. To borrow from a Christian parable, if we have learned anything from all of this, then let's do something about this current state of the guild to make it a lot of fun for everyone. Therefore, whoso heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock- And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not, for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand- And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell, and great was the fall of it. The officers and members of this raid council are the leaders of this guild and support the ideals of the charter upon which LOP is built upon. Now you have to ask yourself, are you built upon a rock or upon the sand? I have great faith in the members of this guild and what they can accomplish when we put our minds to it and stick together. The negative attitude of some members of late has brought down the overall fun level and morale of this guild and this needs to stop. It starts with you who are reading this post. Bite your tongue and refrain from any further pessimistic comments and negativity and let's have some fun! Edited by: Shakespeer at: 5/13/04 3:06 pm BictorBard Registered User Posts: 10 (5/14/04 2:24 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good post shakes. The question that you all may have over looked, why did I even post about my issues? Well, simply put, because I hoped it would get my problem out in the open, alleviate some stress, but most importantly, bring up issues that everyone has on their mind. I didn't post to make people feel like crap and get a good laugh. I posted to open the can of worms; not the most graceful but effective. I noticed today when I was on for the short while I was. People seemed more award of there actions, people seemed nicer, hehe. Also, I got a few different tells from various people, basically saying they are appalled at my post. I ask myself why? I posted in this forum for a reason, I honestly didn't think the other officers had access and was surprised to see comtl's post. Nonetheless, it was my intention to start conversation. Sure, I admit I was mad at the necro in pov and I let a little stream off, but I never specifically pointed fingers at anyone, except hell and Shakes knows why I would, not regarding pov but other issues. The self governing thing sure sounds good in text, but does it work? I think it is a no and why for a few reasons. The main reason, people want to look to someone for the answer or the direction. If there is no one to do this operation then people become lazy and some get scared. Example, the Chardok raid Corwyn had arranged, and I was puller. Corwyn kind let his guard down and let it flow, was that a good or bad thing. Maybe not to him, but to others they got the impression I was overstepping my boundaries, and that is when hell also got overemotional at the end. There was no real appointed leader but things went ok up to our wipe. I got the impression from many people it was all my fault the raid was a failure. When I want to try and kill Trak, was a very spontaneous thing, people did come, but Dantte and Hell made it very clear they didn't want me leading it when we were all in seb. Hell, I don't blame, he already had issues with me, but Dantte it seemed like he felt I was incapable of leading it and he was maybe scared. I really don't know why, but I told him he could lead the raid inside to make him and maybe the others feel better. Maybe I am not cut out to be raid leader material, but gezz I do try. The whole be your own boss doesn’t work, even when Shakes is on people look to him for direction. Worst part, he doesn’t always want it. This becomes a problem because than someone else has to step up. People are the way they are, and they want to think as little as possible. Don’t believe that? Take five people and tell them to make an airplane, but have no leader or duties be assigned. If there is no natural leader, I guarantee they will get nothing done, or the team will split and there will be two or more groups doing their own thing. The task was not to make 2 or 3 airplanes, but one, together as a team, and a team needs many different, diverse people to make the best project. In that group of people there are followers, independents, and leaders. If you happen to have all of one group or are missing all of another you find you are not a team and always come up short. I define myself as an independent. I like to say they are people who are undecided or do not want to choose sides. They like to follow, but sometimes, getting behind the wheel can be just as fun. You all make me feel like I don't help LoP at all. Sure, as I pointed out, I don't tank any raids or form many, but I am always there. Between Corwyn, Shakes and Epics, I don't see the need to try and fit more in. It is understood only a few raids a week, and me bringing in more would just seem against what everyone wants. I would love to have a ton more raids, but the way things are going, I doubt they are possible. I personally pass the time leveling and doing strom raids, and always helping guild mates with whatever as much as possible. As a side note, just a thought not to quote the bible because you may not know who is at the other end of the computer. I am very tolerant of other people and their religion but as soon as people start quoting and asking you questions referring to the text, make some people feel way out of place. Though, it was a good quote and applies to life, in general. Anyways, Shake and Neodoc are the only one's who want a solution, which from shakes wasn't a surprise but kind of shows you what the others may think. We are not perfect and I don't expect anyone to be, but kind of makes you think, when people post or not post what they really care about and what they see. Do they see the harsh words or do they hear the underling message? Granted, I know I probably ticked some people off, do I care? Not a whole lot, why because I only show respect to people who deserve it. I may not deserve it from some people but hey that is life and I won’t hate them for it, but I certainly will give respect if they deserve. Honestly, would I really post all about these issues if I didn’t care about the guild? Take a second and wonder why I posted and why I bothered to respond. A good example to understand what I feel and mean. You are dating someone and they decide to break it off. You are either crushed and spend days crying or days asking your former lover what you did wrong or you blow it off and look for the nearest piece of meat you can find. One involves serious emotion while the other involves none. What does that normally mean about how you felt towards your lover? Corwyn lop George of the Jungle Posts: 52 (5/14/04 5:00 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While its not the only reason, I think the biggest reason for the problems LoP is facing right now are because factions arose amongst the officers. Each of those factions had their own view of how things should be run and what this guild should be and they worked at cross purposes and in a very real way became almost enemies within the same guild. I would not like to see the same thing happen in the Raid Council. We are all going to have our differences, we are going to have fights, we may hate each other some days but we have to realize there is a reason for that emotion. Its because the guild means something to us. We all say, "its just a game" at some time or another, but I think we are hiding from the truth. Monopoly never kept me awake at night. Chutes and Ladders never made me question whether I was doing the right thing. Poker never made me cry...ok, thats not true Those are games...this may be a game too but its more than that at the same time. What Im trying to say is, dont let differences spoil the Raid Council. In the end, I believe that everyone on the raid council wants to make this experience as fun for everyone as possible...no matter what direction we believe the guild should move in or how things should be done. I am asking the Raid Council to NOT be silent on this matter but to mend what fences can be mended and do what is needed to function as an effective body. The Chardok raid seems to be comeing up alot, and its been mentioned that I seem tired. As for being tired, as difficult as this period is right now for LoP, Ive been enjoying myself on EQ alot more than I have in a long while...the fact is leading raids isnt my favorite thing in the world...Ive got a fair amount of experience at it and I think most people trust me with it so I end up doing it a good bit. My style, especially now that, as a whole, Lop is more experienced at raiding has always been to organize and direct the broad details...like a general in the military. The puller and the MT are trusted with making most of the tactical decisions, my job is to make sure they know what direction to go and any special conditions they need be aware of to do their job. Others will have differing styles, thats mine. After a raid, or in general, I am open to criticism or ideas about both tactics/strategies and on how I ran a raid. Just dont start off with "Corwyn you suck!!!" Leading a raid can be pretty stressful and it does take its toll on me so all I ask is that in criticising, respect that I did it. Chardok...ah hated chardok...unfortunately in the critical moments that turned a couple of deaths into a wipe, I was in LOADING PLEASE WAIT... land. I know that when the Queen aggroed Comtl, and maybe myself, we both made a point to stay away from the raid so we would avoid a wipe. I dont know how things went wrong from there...I asked, I tried to find out what happened and I got nearly as many answers as people I talked to. I know *somebody* got aggro to the raid and honestly the only reason that I care is so that, as a raid leader, I can make sure it doesnt happen again. We all screw up, I know my mistakes have caused wipes in the past and as we move into territory Im not as familiar with, it will mostly likely cause more...I will snap at and yell and rant at people that screw up on a raid simply because Im stressed as hell trying to answer endless tells while figuring out what to do all at the same time. Last thing (I promise); while it may have come as a surprise that I had access to this forum, as an officer of LoP, my responsibility extends to anything that impacts this guild. The only possible exception is when specifically ordered by either Shakes or Adi. If two guild members are having real life marital problems, thats none of my business...if those problems affect the guild then it becomes my duty to try and do what I think is best to keep that from hurting the guild. Thats an extreme case and I fervently hope that I never get put in that position or if I am that shakes is on so I can dump it on him I know shakes mentioned the reasons for officer access, but I wanted my own reasons for choosing to step in to be understood. I know I ramble and I know I bury my points...hopefully everyone can dig them out and find something useful in all that. Corwyn


I took the What Mythological Creature Are you? test by !

shabrinigdo Registered User Posts: 32 (5/14/04 5:46 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- keep in mind when you read this thread ... none of this is meant offensiveley or meant to argue any facts .. ok i want to clear a few misconseptions up real quick here ... i have been quiet through most of this thread but i feel the need to clarify a few things .... first off ... the chardok raid with neodoc ..... i did not blame anyone ...... i saw pets run down .... meaning they got hit with an aoe ..... an aoe that the raid wasnt expecting .... i was wondering who aggroed the overking .... i didnt point fingers .... i wanted to know why the pets got hit with the aoe in the first place ... as it turns out comtl and kris had the aggro but its not anyones fault and i havent once said it was ..... next issue ... bictors ability to lead raids i have not said anything to the effect that you cant lead or are a bad leader ... not one thing .... i have been apprehensive of a few things but i have not said anything about your ability to lead raids... the trak raid that you were on .... I WAS TOLD ..... that dantte was the raid leader and i treated him as such .... i didnt know you were the raid leader ..... and everytime i have done a trak raid for lop i am the break in leader ... then i turn over raid leader to whoever is assigned ..... thats WHEN we get to the locked door ... its not meaning to step on anyones toes .... its just a lot easier to lead and MT up to that point .... the deal with you charming mobs .... that was the FIRST group i had been in with you .... and it was also my first impression of you ... that has caused most of my apprehension next issue ... leading raids when i lead a raid or am main tank for a raid .... the first thing i look at is our goal ... second is what forces we have to accomplish it .... if i assign a job i expect someone to do it .... if they fail to do the job i dont blame them ... i blame myself .... the first thing i always ask if we wipe or if something goes wrong .... is what happened .... most raid failures ive been on have been due to misscommunication on the leaders part .... the first time we went against trak i wasnt informed that he banishes ..... we wiped of course ..... so instead of placing blame i made it a requirement for any trak raid im leader of that there is a coh mage in the same group as the main tank ... next issue ... regarding the first post in this thread .... how often do i raid with bictor .... answer is rareley .... so how could i constantly degrade him... (his words not mine) and i wasnt aware i was degrading anyone in the first place .... im sorry if i have offended you bictor and will treat you in a professional matter from now on ... no joking around with you ..... if it is offensive it is halted as of now .... next issue is the guild i joined called lop i left my last guild after i was told by several people in there that my class was worthless ... when i joined lop i wasnt expecting UBER_CONSTANT_RAID_GUILD_01 ... like dark horizon .. i wasnt expecting required raids .. heck i sometimes dont like to raid ... but when someone needs help i rareley turn anyone down ... i did that before i joined lop and i still live up to that ... when i joined lop i was welcomed very warmly and actually felt like i had found the right guild for me ... most of the people who welcomed me into lop have left now ..... but im staying because i want people who are joining lop to have the same thing i got when i joined .... i want to hold onto that hand of friendship that was extended to me when i joined and give it to others next issue popflags, quests, ldon, ect.. a lot of people in the guild have been going on strom channel raids .... i dont feel thats avoiding the guild .... if people want to do it they want to do it .... this is a game ... you cant control people .... if people feel that they want to get flagged then all the more power to them ... now if they were alredy in a guild raid and left to go join another raid and get a flag or loot or something then i would be upset ... but if everyone is just xp'ing i dont see the problem in it as for loot ... most of the time ive passed on loot or have left a raid before loot is distributed ... loot is not the reason i go on raids i go on raids to help people who usually ask me to... end of discussion next issue ... if you had a problem with me why didnt you take it up with me and try to work it out? .. instead of making a thread that wasnt only hurtful but rather unprovoked .... i mean how did i get dragged into this? when you wrote the thread i was had just finished building a new computer because my old one died .... i log back on and read your thread ....... thats why i didnt have a response ... i wasnt only hurt but was confused ... i had missed a lot in the passed week or so but i am pretty sure i didnt do anything to escalate problem in that time period i wasnt online .... basicly i got hit with a right cross and i didnt even see it coming ..... this whole thread didnt make me mad or upset or anything .... it just hurt pure and simple .... this is the first time my name has been in a flame thread in my entire 3 years of playing eq...bictor i understand the thread isnt completley about be ... but i was singled out .... so was shakes but not in the same way,,, last thing i want to touch on is how i view the raid council ..... we all voulenteered for this job ... eating at each other is not going to make it any easier ..we are a council .... were here to help support the guild ... theyre not our slaves ... wer advisors ... were not the boss were resources.... we have been given the resposibilty to handle raids so the officers arent hamperd with that as well as all the other guild matters ... and yes there are a lot of guild matters ... for this council to be successful we have to work together on things .... if i wanted to i could go on and flame everyone i saw .... but it would accomplish nothing except hurt people and make the problems worse and drive a bigger rift in the council ..... as corwin said thats what happened with the officers ... they had factions ..... if the leadership is devided of course people will be unhappy ... what i propose is if there is an issue INVOLVING the raid council itself then it can be posted in this forum ,,,,, if its meant for the entire guild then post it in a different section of the website ... if its between you and another person send that person a tell and work it out with them ... or if you need an officer to moderate set up a chat channel between the three of yall .... heck ive done it before ... it gets problems solved fast .... always keep in mind that everquest is a game .. not a job ... people are there to have fun .... if theyre not having fun then there is a problem .... if people only want to raid occasionally and think groups are more fun then forcing them to go on constant raids is only going to drive them the wrong way .... just have fun and remember that behind each of those avatars is a real person .... remember their feelings too --Hell 65 Feral Lord of LoP BictorBard Registered User Posts: 11 (5/15/04 12:16 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very well thought-out and organized post Hell. First, I do apologize to Hellmaster for the flame on him. We both have had issues and either one of us was not helping the situation get better. Basically we were always sarcastic with one another. Sometimes for fun other times not. I didn't mean to blindside hell with the issue and it had nothing to do while we was gone, I was just rolling off on people in EQ that made it much harder to play for fun. Again, I apologize, and I promise not to charm any mobs that you are tanking, until I hit 64 when I can charm them again, just kidding. Second, It still feels there is a gap between what we want and how can we get there. The officer/ raid council structure seems kind of an outline, but it is getting better. Maybe some suggestions on how to streamline both, in a completely different post. Also, I still feel if you join LoP you should come to a minimum amount of raids in a month. I know we don't require people to help, but I personally have never seen some people help on any raids or talk in guild chat. It is like joining a gym but never going. Sure you can tell your friends you have a membership, but it is a real waste. The minimum is nothing extreme but giving up a few times a month to help out fellow guild mates is nice, PLUS it will help you get to know new people and maybe you will make a new friend to chat with. If that is what you want from LoP, someone to chat with. I personally see much more of a benefit from helping in a few raids than none at all. I hope we all learned a few things about each other, for one, I realized people like to write with their hearts instead of their heads. Also, I need to clarify my statements more so they are less confusing. I did post in this forum so my other issues could be seen, I wanted them to be. Before I didn't know anyone but the raid council saw these posts, but now I know all the officers can, by the way, I figured Crowyn and Adirya could see it since they are basically LoP leaders. As a final note, I hope all the officers read these posts, it offers insight and good interpersonal skills for those wanting to better themselves. Utalen Posts: 32 (5/15/04 2:49 pm) Reply Re --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Edited for the better of others* I need to learn how to read..lol Utalen Wytchblade- 64th Grave Lord Tunnoab Merak- 36th Lord of the Wilds Legends of the Phoenix There is no denying the person behind the screen or the friendships you can form with strangers. Edited by: Utalen at: 5/15/04 9:59 pm shabrinigdo Registered User Posts: 33 (5/15/04 10:23 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Re --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i saw it utalen .... your soooooooo busted bro ..... when i get with ya online next .... im kickin ya butt .... j/k --Hell 65 Feral Lord of LoP Dedley Registered User Posts: 341 (5/16/04 6:23 am) Reply Re: Flame on --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sigh. I have come back to this post several times trying to figure out what I want to say. Most of what I wanted to say has been said by others, so I won't repeat it. I don't want to be long winded, so I will just say, Bictor, I'm really sorry that you have all this hate in you. I hope you can work thnigs out in your life. Hell, I salute you for the mature way you responded to this. Ut, I saw it too, but it was a long post and hard to keep everything in perspective. I forgive ya. Dedley Stormseeker (Adopted son of Dolean and Lenane Stormseeker) 58 Necromancer of Innorruk (and growing) Dedley's Magelo profile > Utalen Posts: 35 (5/16/04 8:11 am) Reply RE --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doh Im busted Utalen Wytchblade- 64th Grave Lord Tunnoab Merak- 36th Lord of the Wilds Legends of the Phoenix There is no denying the person behind the screen or the friendships you can form with strangers. << Prev Topic | Next Topic >> Email This To a Friend Topic Commands Click to receive email notification of replies jump to: Family Room (New)The Treehouse (New)The Attic (New)Photo Album (New)Applicants (New)The Dining Room (New)The Den (New)The Cookie Jar (New)Allies (New)Healers (New)Casters (New)Melee (New)Requested Raids (New)Scheduled Events (New)The Mortuary (New)Raid Council (New)Welcome Aboard! (New) - Legends of the Phoenix - Raid Council - Powered By ezboard® Ver. 7.31l Copyright ©1999-2003 ezboard, Inc.